Episode 17: Decent Work with Josie Gibson
Marti and Todd welcome guest Josie Gibson, co-founder of the Catalyst Network, to discuss “Decent Work”—re-imagining our notions of work, contributions, and devoting our energies in a system that leads to wellbeing rather than inequity.
From the Edge: How We Know Shapes How We Lead (Marti)
Conscious Rant: Freedom & Constraints (Todd)
Guest: Josie Gibson
Josie Gibson is Director of The Catalyst Network, a leadership and business coach and an adviser on major projects. An associate of Macquarie University’s Centre for Workforce Futures in Australia, she is active in national and international initiatives exploring new work, community, and economic models.
Raised in regional Australia, Josie spent nearly 20 years in journalism, half of that as a producer and reporter with Australia’s national broadcaster, the ABC. Post-journalism, she held senior roles in large and family-owned organizations in different industries and countries, her experience spanning the private, public, and not-for-profit sectors. She has worked in executive development and higher education and co-created Australia’s first leadership index at an internationally ranked business school. On the business side, Josie has founded and helped to build successful forums for chief financial officers, HR directors, and senior women in global subsidiaries. She co-founded an innovation start-up in 2013 (exiting in 2015), and The Catalyst Network, a membership community for accomplished changemakers, in 2014.
Timeline
1:06 Todd’s opening thoughts
1:44 Etymology of “decent”
4:37 Introduction of Josie Gibson
8:18 Porous boundaries
9:44 Our detachment from work
14:04 Gig economy
17:06 Competition and fair value
18:54 Elder care in Australia
20:48 “Competitive advantage”
22:50 Mutual benefits
23:36 Cooperation in the Craft Beer industry
25:38 Impact investing
27:35 Perils of measuring everything
31:24 Science, measurement, and accountability
35:02 Bewilderment of what to do
41:49 Work vs. jobs
43:58 Role of technology in decent work
46:08 Being creative
50:36 Getting in touch with Josie
51:24 From the Edge: Learning to Change in an Uncertain World (Marti)
1:00:34 Conscious Rant: Freedom and Constraints (Todd)
Quotes
“Imagine if we substituted the word ‘contribution’ for ‘work’ and suddenly everything opens up” — Josie Gibson
“Boundaries is a substitution for learning how to actually respect another person. ” — Marti Spiegelman
“I've stopped talking about the future of work because I think the future is here ” — Josie Gibson
“One of the biggest problems with limited consciousness is it forces one against the other.” — Marti Spiegelman
“With decent work we're talking about a completely different experience of every human—having an opportunity to contribute to life. ” — Marti Spiegelman
“A lot of people are trapped in a mindset, they're trapped in a perspective, they're trapped in a position or a role. Seeing new possibilities requires new experiences.” — Todd Hoskins
“Technology has been so helpful in enabling us to continue to connect, to do wonderful things together, but overall, some of the shadow impacts of technology have weighed pretty heavily on the shape of work as we've ended up right now.” — Josie Gibson
“What we might do with what I call creative professionals? The kind of people who are learning agile, we're creative thinkers, we're relationship driven. There are many people out there with these attributes who are completely undervalued, who may not even get a look. These are the skills that we need more of. We need the creativity, the creative thinking, the creative practice.” — Josie Gibson
“Uncertainty can be a great motivator – it can ignite our imaginations, it can drive our creativity, but it definitely has a tipping point – at a certain point, too much uncertainty can trigger fear on a grand scale – this in turn can trigger collective-level reactions against the fear – and intense reactivity can carry us away from the one thing we really need in the face of uncertainty and challenge – we need our curiosity, our inventiveness, our willingness to try new things, learn new things, AND establish new frameworks, or systems, to support the new ways of thriving we inevitably create for ourselves.” — Marti Spiegelman
“You say you understand the science, but I don’t believe you. Because if you did and then you continue to act as you do, that would mean you’re evil. And I don’t believe that.” — Greta Thunberg
“As a species we have been masters of creative change and thriving – not just at the level of a singular new invention here and there, but over and over, we have been masters of change and invention at system-wide scales, at high levels of consciousness and being.” — Marti Spiegelman
“Our human design is rooted in our ability to meet uncertainty head-on, to explore, invent, and take action!” — Marti Spiegelman
“At Davos, the UN, and all over the world, our leaders give Greta [Thungberg] standing ovations and then get back to business as usual.” — Marti Spiegelman
“One of the greatest teachings [Angeles Arrien] always offered is this: Indigenous leaders and elders always seek out and immerse themselves in a new learning situation every season, in order to stay current.” — Marti Spiegelman
“The markets have decided that systemic inequality is very profitable (for some), that lobbyists can write legislation to protect assets and interests, that extracting resources provides shareholder value, even if the extraction is killing people and the resources are depleted.
But it’s not actually the market deciding. It’s the people who provide the scaffolding for the market. It’s the people who are writing the rules that provide the definition and constraints of the market.” — Todd Hoskins
“There is no freedom without constraints. The constraints of the market are formed by people in power. Free markets are only free when structures are built and maintained to keep the market free. The market is an abstraction formed by political activities. Those political activities, especially in modern America, are informed by business interests.” — Todd Hoskins
“So when someone says, “Let the markets decide” you can usually guess that they, or some group they associate with, are benefitting from the status quo. If you choose to defer complex choices to the forces of the market, you are not actually surrendering to some divine principle. You are essentially saying, “I think things are good the way they are.” — Todd Hoskins
“Do you really want to live in a world that is a survival of the fittest, especially if the ‘fittest’ have tied up the legs and arms of those who they think may someday be equally fit? The markets are buttressed by human hands, our hands. So we need to carefully consider who we buy from, who we support or recommend, who we elect to government, and who we work with. Are we re-inforcing the walls that have separated us – the constraints of the free market? Or are we creating more fluidity for people and ideas to move?” — Todd Hoskins
Links
Macquarie University’s Centre for Workforce Futures
Cooperation in the Craft Beer industry
Greta Thunberg at the World Economic Forum
Credits
Theme music courtesy of Cloud Cult